Minnesota Nice is something of a state motto. But the term can be confusing — and controversial — due to its dual definitions.

The first meaning of Minnesota Nice is literal: We're polite, friendly folk who smile at strangers and shovel our neighbors' sidewalks. But the second is a darker depiction of how reserved Minnesotans tend to avoid confrontation, so their masked negative feelings leach out as passive-aggression.

That's why Minneapolis entrepreneur Joshua Neumann suggests we ditch the baggage of Minnesota Nice and rebrand ourselves as Minnesota Kind. The slogan, which he's promoting through merch sold online and at a Minnesota State Fair booth, describes a deeper and more compassionate way of caring for others.

"Nice" is fine, Neumann says. But we need something stronger to heal our divisions. (This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.)

Q: Aren't "nice" and "kind" basically interchangeable? What's the difference?

A: I started looking into the etymology, and the origin of the word nice means ignorant or foolish, and the origin of the word kind means kin or family. And I was like: Minnesota foolish, or Minnesota family? Obviously, Minnesota family will hopefully bring people together.

Q: So, to you, nice means being pleasant and agreeable, but it's infused with naiveté. Does kind suggest a deeper level of empathy and generosity?

A: I don't want to disparage Minnesota Nice — it got us this far. But how can we be a little bit better? It takes more time and effort and energy to be kind, but it goes a long way. Anybody can walk down the street and say "Hi" to somebody. But if I'm walking down the street and I see a piece of garbage, I'm going to pick it up and make the environment look better so the next person who walks by doesn't have to see it.

Q: As an example, let's say someone makes a discriminatory remark. A Minnesota Nice response might be to quickly change the subject. But a Minnesota Kind, or moral approach, would be to address the comment and assert that it's wrong.

A: I agree. To me, I'm being kind by being honest and truthful, even if it hurts.

Q: Some might say you have skin in the game — chapped skin, perhaps — in promoting the word kind as part of your business.

A: I have this company called Kind Lips, which is a lip balm company. The idea is that each tube is a reminder to speak kind words every time you apply it.

Q: I understand Kind Lips just incorporated an anti-bullying program in schools nationwide as a nonprofit. Can you explain how the lip balm is used as a behavior-modification tool?

A: In one class of third-graders in Minnesota with a lot of behavioral challenges, they did a lesson on speaking kind words every time they used the Kind Lips, and they would keep the lip balm in their desks and give each other compliments. Whenever somebody would act up, the kids would tell that person that they should put their Kind Lips on, and they learned how to self-regulate.

Q: And it can help adults be mindful of their words, too?

A: I keep it in my cupholder when I'm driving, so I don't get mad.

Q: But you intend the Minnesota Kind concept to be bigger than lip balm.

A: Especially going into a political season, this is something that can hopefully unite people, as opposed to dividing people. Because whether you're a Democrat or Republican, at the end of the day, we're family. We're all in the state together, and we all want safety and happiness.

Q: After acquiring the url MNKind.com, what did you do to spread the word?

A: I made some Minnesota Kind shirts at home and just started wearing one around every day. I live in the North Loop, so I see a lot of people when I take my dog for a walk, and people started asking me where I got the shirt.

Q: And eventually you'd like someone else to take the reins?

A: I've met with Meet Minneapolis and a few politicians, including Rep. Dean Phillips, and everybody's really liked the idea. I want this to be a state marketing program. Minnesota or whoever can take it over and it just becomes a new way of doing life in Minnesota.

Q: Is it an uphill battle to change a cultural icon?

A: If we can change the flag, and if we can change Lake Calhoun to Bde Maka Ska, it seems like Minnesota is ripe to continue to elevate its status and move in a positive direction. Let's change being known for nice to kind, and let's see if we can't make Minnesota the most kind state in the country.